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Hello everyone and welcome back to I think this could be our eighth or ninth

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episode of Gaming Gossip. I've lost track. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

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We're here, the gang as usual, as I like to call us, the bad boys, Ben, Alex, David.

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There we go. Today we're gonna be talking about a topic that's less sort of time-sensitive

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as we have done in the past. We're gonna be talking about the whole yellow paint debate.

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For those people who aren't familiar with what the yellow paint debate is,

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it's essentially this idea that game developers use yellow paint in games

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and amid of other different accessibility ideas to help people along the way.

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And sometimes it's very useful. Sometimes it's very, it's something we like to highlight

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and talk about. And sometimes it's a bit of a negative and it leads to some criticisms.

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And there's a whole bunch of different reasons as to why it's a topic of debate.

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So that's what we're going to talk about today. So to kick that off,

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I guess, you know, what's sort of our general consensus about yellow paint?

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Do we think it's good for the video games? Do we think it's sort of holding them back?

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What's sort of the take on it?

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It's good for me. I like it. It works for me. You know, I'll take the name bad boy,

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but only, you know, with the brackets at games in between it, I think.

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Because, yeah, I don't know, sometimes I will need something to be like,

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yeah, this is where you need to go. There was a lot of times,

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I was playing, the thing I think of is The Last of Us Part II Remastered,

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where I was playing that and I was like, OK, follow the light.

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But then there's some sections in the series where I'm like, OK,

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there's a lot of bits where it just feels very, and then you'll get to a door.

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The amount of times you go to unlock a door and it's like, no, not that door.

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That door's locked. You have to go find another way into that.

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And it's like, why do I have the prompt to even unlock the door?

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In any case, I need it because I'm not very good at many things.

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But, you know, I think it's a thing of like, it doesn't really,

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does it really break the immersion that much?

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I don't think so. I think there's cases where it can,

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but I think for the most part, I think that, again, we use the topic,

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it's yellow paint, right? That's the thing that we use as the thing that stands out.

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You go into a game where the quite natural environments and then all of a sudden

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this yellow paint saying this is where you can climb or something.

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And that's the thing that people draw their attention to.

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But there are various different accessibility avenues that they use to,

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to help gamers along. And I, again, I think that,

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I think that they're generally speaking well done.

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And I think that they're, I think that they're a benefit to players because,

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again, if you want that sort of hyper immersive quality,

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then you can go and find games that are like that.

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But for a lot of people, games are supposed to be fun.

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You're supposed to be able to go in and be able to enjoy yourself,

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not get confused and aggravated and frustrated,

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not knowing where to go and what you can and cannot climb.

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So I think, I think that is helpful,

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especially for those who, again, you know,

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require those sort of accessibility features to be able to play games in the

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first place, you know,

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and we're not just talking about those with disabilities either.

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There are younger players, people who need those things to help them along

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their way.

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We've improved a lot in that regard.

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And mostly thanks to games such as The Last of Us or God of War or Forza

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Motorsport. Right. But I think it's, I mean,

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lots of words be spoken about this matter because I think it mostly depends on

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the genre we're talking about.

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So the main like sort of controversy came up after Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth,

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if I'm correct. Right. So Yellowpaint,

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I think it all started with Uncharted-like games,

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like the very Uncharted and then Assassin's Creed-ish and,

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and God, Tomb Raiders, right.

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That followed sort of the semi-open world plus Uncharted-like sections.

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And we briefly discussed how in a previous episode,

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how Roblox and new audiences needed to be hand-guided in a very different way,

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in a very fast, you know, like,

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you can do this.

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I'm hand-holding you because I'm teaching you very quick the things you can do and

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how my friend Elena from Razer Games had this beautiful thread on Twitter

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explaining how audiences change things.

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But I think you mentioned something very important here, Ben,

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that is how, as I said, depending on the game and depending on the genre,

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it can be a little bit too intrusive or, you know,

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like breaking the immersion, missing the point, actually.

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So, and it's not only like Yellowpaint.

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I've seen yellow leaves in Prince of Persia, the latest game,

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which seemed a bit awkward to me.

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I mean, it's a Metroidvania and I'm supposed to explore.

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So, yeah, there is this wind and these leaves leading me to the next place.

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But then all of a sudden the following section is like proper

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labyrinthine sort of type of deal that you have to explore and find your way around.

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Right?

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So I think for, and if you go more cinematic,

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it's for developers, their role is to teach audiences too.

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So I understand when you sort of need some guidance.

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But for example, I recently started Viewfinder.

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If you handhold the player too much, part of the magic is lost.

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And in those games where you have to realize what's possible in the world,

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such as Viewfinder, so you start the game right off,

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you fall off of a bridge, of a broken bridge.

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And that's the way the game uses to teach you,

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you can rewind by pressing circle on the PS5.

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So what if the game right off from scratch tells you,

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hey, you can use circle to rewind.

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Then you won't feel as much of a part of the experience itself, right?

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And I think that happens a lot.

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And I think, yeah, yellow paint when it's generic,

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yeah, you can perhaps switch it on and off or perhaps have a brighter paint

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for those who require it.

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But at the same time, sometimes it can be really intrusive in my opinion.

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Yeah, I would agree.

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I mean, I know there's a game coming up that I had a chance to play

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back at Gamescom called Botany Manor,

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which it's very similar to Viewfinder, right?

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It's those sort of puzzle games, first person.

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Again, it's not very fast.

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It's all about picking up clues and figuring out how to solve these problems.

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It's not a puzzle game in the sense that we've seen some other puzzle games,

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but it's very similar to Viewfinder in that regard.

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And again, they don't use those sort of accessibility features like that.

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If you get stuck on a puzzle, like you just have to sort of figure it out.

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You have to just sort of look at the clues and piece it together

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and figure out how it works.

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And I think it's got its benefits to doing that.

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But at the same time, there are other games at a faster pace

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that need to have that helping hand to be able to ease them along.

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And it's not, again, it's not just yellow paint.

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Like we use yellow paint as a prime example,

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but it's happened for decades now with things like red barrels, right?

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Everyone knows that a red barrel explodes, right?

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And you know that if something's red, then it's probably going to be explosive.

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And games have done that for years. It's not something that's new.

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So it's not just like Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth with its ledges.

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Like, you know, you play a Resident Evil game,

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you know that you can smash the yellow crates.

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It's little things like that that you come to associate with it,

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which I guess is sort of like an industry-wide effort

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to engage people that don't want these tutorials.

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Which, you know, tutorials have their benefits.

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They have their weaknesses.

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I mean, I don't think the games journalism sector

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is ever going to escape the infamous cuphead thing.

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Like that was a tutorial that a man could not complete.

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So...

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Why don't you write that? Just on a wider point.

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If I got to that point and I was like, I can't do it.

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It's Dean Takahashi, for the record.

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I've met him several times at Game Lab in Barcelona.

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Nice guy.

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I think it's an interesting way to communicate precisely just that.

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I mean, that's a hardcore game in a way,

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dressed up as a cartoon, right?

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So, yeah.

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But I mean, Cuphead do it as well with the pink things, right?

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So you know exactly which one that is the one

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that you can sort of interact with to get your little bonus thing.

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You know, they have that color to stand out

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so that people can register it and understand it.

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It's always been used in games in a multitude of senses.

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I think it's just used a lot these days,

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which people seem to pick up on.

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Accessibility features are in games more than they ever have been.

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You go into the settings menu and there's the whole fleet

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of different options that you can fiddle with.

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Not just colorblindness and all that,

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but like a variety of different features.

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And they're all great.

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You know, text to speech things and whatnot.

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I got into a bit of trouble at BlizzCon

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because I did an interview with the World of Warcraft guys

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and the new expansion is all about spiders.

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And I was like, maybe not one for the arachnophobes then.

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And he looked at me very seriously.

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And he was like, we're working on that.

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We're working on that.

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We're going to have that.

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We're going to claim that.

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You're going to sell the expansion.

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And I was like, yeah, okay.

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I was like, you know, maybe a little bit light.

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But I think, yeah, so they take it seriously

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in all aspects.

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It's not just helping people who already love games

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figure out how to do things easier.

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It's getting people who maybe are like,

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oh, I never would play that because really crippling fear

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of whatever, right?

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Spiders, certain bugs.

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You know, we've seen arachnophobia settings

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in a lot of other games as well.

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I love Grounded's one.

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Grounded's one's an old-timer.

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What's Grounded's one?

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I know the Lethal Company one,

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which is just big error signs coming in.

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Yeah.

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Grounded's similar to that, isn't it?

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They sort of replace the big scary spider

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with a blob, essentially.

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You're like, well, it does the job, I guess.

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It solves the problem, doesn't it?

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Grounded, they get very scary in Grounded as well.

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And I think when you said I run into problems,

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I thought you were going to say

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with the text-to-speech sort of assistant.

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Because I run into problems,

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and I think many other people,

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but I don't know if Microsoft is aware,

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with Microsoft's own, very own text-to-speech,

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mostly with Forza Motorsport.

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So you start the game, and somehow,

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I don't know if it was PC or Xbox,

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it's going to be turned on by default,

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and then there was no way to find the way to switch it off.

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And the text-to-speech was like a very weird accent,

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and it was funny until it got very frustrating.

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But many other options, as you say,

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Ben, with, for example, text size, font size, finally.

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Some games are still ignoring that.

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But come on, it's 2024.

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My screen size can go from this to 80 inches or 90 inches, right?

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And I need to be able to read.

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And it's not that I have problems with that myself,

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and that people have to be helped, of course, as well.

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It's just screen size changes and distance changes a lot.

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So I think we have to be glad about this.

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And for the record, I'm not against these measures

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when I said it sometimes can break immersion.

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They've always been there, right?

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So I'm just super happy about that.

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It's just sometimes, I don't think it has to be insulting for some people.

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I think that's an extreme that we don't have to meet.

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But sometimes it's just not very subtle, right?

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Not very elegant, right?

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When it's an immersive experience, I mean.

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I think there is an argument, definitely,

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for the way that games use their sort of tutorial mechanics.

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I think that the big topic of conversation,

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or one that's voiced a lot, is the Roblox generation, right?

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They're used to not having those sort of tutorials

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that teach them how to play the game,

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and then they're just let loose in the world,

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like just go and figure out the rest of it yourself.

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I assume that the majority of the Roblox generation

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are going to face a huge amount of trouble

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when they become old enough and sort of coherent enough

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to be able to play a game like Elven Ring or From Software.

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They're going to really struggle with those really demanding titles,

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which they don't tell you how to play.

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If you want to figure something out,

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you're probably going to have to rely on guides,

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or just figure it out yourself.

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That's just the way those games are.

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Or Game Reactor.

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Oh, Game Reactor, yeah.

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For example.

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Yeah, Game Reactor, From, yeah.

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So I think that there is an argument definitely there

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newer players are taught how to play games,

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because I think that there's a lot of new games

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that don't do that very well.

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And yes, I understand that we're in this new sort of era

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of consumption, right?

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With how we sort of get our entertainment.

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It's quicker, it's faster paced than it ever has been,

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and people want to skip those sort of elements.

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But there has to be...

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There's something there.

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I have a big question here.

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So if Roblox generation is the same as FIFA slash EAFC generation,

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where is the middle ground between both?

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Because if you start playing EAFC for the first time,

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you've never touched a football game before,

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or NBA 2K, for example.

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Yeah.

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But then delve into the tutorial section,

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that gives you, at least would give me four weeks of playtime

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only focused on the potential, like the skill moves,

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the many things you can do by combining many buttons, etc.

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So how does that audience specifically,

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like tackle, no pun intended, FIFA?

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How do they start?

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They learn, they absorb naturally how they can do the advanced moves,

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or they just play the very casual way?

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I wouldn't think that.

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What do you guys think?

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Yeah, it's definitely a difficult topic really, isn't it?

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Because sports games in general, I think, sort of...

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They have this sort of weird dynamic where some of them,

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like racing games and golf games,

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they have all these systems baked in,

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and it's really easy to pick up and understand them

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even without that understanding of the sport.

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But I think that with the sort of football games,

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and even games like Madden, for example,

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they don't do that.

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They don't really teach you the dynamics of the sport.

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They teach you the core mechanics of how to play the game,

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but they don't teach you how to play the actual sport,

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like the actual game itself.

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And I think that there's definitely a topic of conversation.

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I mean, I know that FIFA, or I haven't played EA Sports FC24,

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but I know that FIFA has those sort of elements in place,

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like the sort of training exercises

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where you can go and do the shooting mechanics and stuff like that.

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So I know that they were always there,

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which sort of help a player understand those elements, but...

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They're deep.

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Very, very deep.

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Very deep, yeah.

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So it's...

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Go on, Alex.

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I was going to say, I find it interesting

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that it's Gen Z and Gen Alpha being spooned together,

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and I think something that might be a sort of way that...

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Because we're technically Gen Z, I think, then.

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But the gap, I would say, between...

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Like, my brother is, like, four years younger than me,

16:08.000 --> 16:10.000
and even the gap between me and him

16:10.000 --> 16:13.000
and how we've played games and we've grown up with games

16:13.000 --> 16:15.000
is vastly different.

16:15.000 --> 16:18.000
And I think a lot of that can come down to

16:18.000 --> 16:22.000
maybe, like, a second screen being always...

16:22.000 --> 16:25.000
Like, just sort of, like, always there.

16:25.000 --> 16:28.000
So you've always got your iPad to get up a YouTube guide, for example.

16:28.000 --> 16:30.000
You've always got your...

16:30.000 --> 16:32.000
It's like, a kid nowadays, you've always got, like...

16:32.000 --> 16:34.000
You know, maybe even another monitor

16:34.000 --> 16:36.000
if you're playing Roblox on PC or something,

16:36.000 --> 16:38.000
to, like, watch your favourite YouTubers who play the game

16:38.000 --> 16:39.000
so you play it like them.

16:39.000 --> 16:42.000
Maybe that's sort of the way that people

16:42.000 --> 16:45.000
might not struggle as much as they go forward

16:45.000 --> 16:48.000
with those, like, tougher games than...

16:48.000 --> 16:51.000
But, you know, Roblox, it can be tough, you know?

16:51.000 --> 16:53.000
I'm sure there's some game modes out there

16:53.000 --> 16:56.000
that are, like, you know, Elden Ring or whatever.

16:56.000 --> 16:57.000
Yeah.

16:57.000 --> 16:58.000
It's like a metaverse, isn't it?

16:58.000 --> 17:01.000
So you never know what you're getting on Roblox.

17:01.000 --> 17:03.000
But no, it is interesting you bring that up, Alex,

17:03.000 --> 17:05.000
about the sort of Gen Z, Gen Alpha sort of thing,

17:05.000 --> 17:06.000
because I would agree.

17:06.000 --> 17:07.000
I think that...

17:07.000 --> 17:09.000
You can go older too, right?

17:09.000 --> 17:10.000
You can go older.

17:10.000 --> 17:11.000
Boomers, for example.

17:11.000 --> 17:12.000
Yeah, go Boomers.

17:12.000 --> 17:13.000
Yeah.

17:13.000 --> 17:15.000
It's interesting because I kind of see that generation...

17:15.000 --> 17:16.000
Don't leave me out.

17:16.000 --> 17:19.000
I kind of see that generation split a little bit with...

17:19.000 --> 17:21.000
For example, like, with social media,

17:21.000 --> 17:24.000
there's another interesting part where you sort of bring it in there.

17:24.000 --> 17:26.000
Like, I grew up in that sort of age

17:26.000 --> 17:28.000
where social media was really just booming.

17:28.000 --> 17:30.000
Like, it was just really starting to click.

17:30.000 --> 17:32.000
You know, we went from that sort of MSN era

17:32.000 --> 17:33.000
where everyone was like,

17:33.000 --> 17:35.000
oh, social media, that's kind of quirky and cool.

17:35.000 --> 17:37.000
So all of a sudden, it was like, you know, you're 13 years old

17:37.000 --> 17:38.000
and everyone has a Facebook account.

17:38.000 --> 17:40.000
And it's like everyone's on social media.

17:40.000 --> 17:42.000
Everyone wants a Snapchat account, a Vine account,

17:42.000 --> 17:44.000
and all these different things and stuff.

17:44.000 --> 17:48.000
And like, you know, 12, 13 years later,

17:48.000 --> 17:49.000
I'm done with that.

17:49.000 --> 17:51.000
I'm past the point of caring with it all.

17:51.000 --> 17:53.000
There's so many social medias, I'm done with it.

17:53.000 --> 17:55.000
But my sister, she's like six years younger than me.

17:55.000 --> 17:57.000
And it's her life.

17:57.000 --> 17:58.000
Like, she's...

17:58.000 --> 17:59.000
Yeah, TikTok.

17:59.000 --> 18:00.000
Yeah, it's all she knows.

18:00.000 --> 18:03.000
And it's like, it's so different with the way that sort of lifestyle changed.

18:03.000 --> 18:07.000
I guess you can sort of implement that into gaming as well.

18:07.000 --> 18:09.000
But then again, we have said it before in the past as well.

18:09.000 --> 18:11.000
There is a severe distinct difference

18:11.000 --> 18:13.000
between the sort of mainstream gamer

18:13.000 --> 18:19.000
and the more veteran gamer, I guess you could say.

18:19.000 --> 18:21.000
Like, between the people who, again, we talk in Roblox,

18:21.000 --> 18:25.000
you Call of Duty, EA Sports, FC.

18:25.000 --> 18:28.000
God, such a horrible name for a video game.

18:28.000 --> 18:30.000
Those kind of gamers are very fundamentally different

18:30.000 --> 18:32.000
to the ones that will play your sort of things

18:32.000 --> 18:33.000
like your Final Fantasy.

18:33.000 --> 18:37.000
So you have to sort of then apply the yellow paint debate

18:37.000 --> 18:39.000
to that as well, you know.

18:39.000 --> 18:43.000
Do gamers who play those sort of Final Fantasy games,

18:43.000 --> 18:45.000
who play those sort of RPGs and whatnot,

18:45.000 --> 18:47.000
do they need the yellow paint as much?

18:47.000 --> 18:51.000
Because they're clearly more versed in the sense

18:51.000 --> 18:52.000
of what a video game is.

18:52.000 --> 18:53.000
I don't know.

18:53.000 --> 18:54.000
It's a very complicated debate.

18:54.000 --> 18:58.000
I think we can all agree, though, accessibility is good.

18:58.000 --> 18:59.000
Doesn't matter what you take on it.

18:59.000 --> 19:02.000
Maybe there should be options to be able to turn it off.

19:02.000 --> 19:03.000
But accessibility is good.

19:03.000 --> 19:05.000
So let's keep pushing for that.

19:05.000 --> 19:06.000
Yeah.

19:06.000 --> 19:07.000
Yeah.

19:07.000 --> 19:10.000
I, for a change, you know, ironically,

19:10.000 --> 19:15.000
I, for a change, would like to give a shout out to Nintendo.

19:15.000 --> 19:17.000
And two reasons here.

19:17.000 --> 19:19.000
One is Princess Peach.

19:19.000 --> 19:23.000
I think that game is very, you know,

19:23.000 --> 19:27.000
it's very respectful in the way that you can show it

19:27.000 --> 19:32.000
to anybody who's not into video games at all.

19:32.000 --> 19:35.000
And we would explain you in a very simple

19:35.000 --> 19:39.000
but not intrusive way how this whole thing works.

19:39.000 --> 19:42.000
It's a two button based game.

19:42.000 --> 19:45.000
All actions are very clear from the start.

19:45.000 --> 19:49.000
And I think it's really nice for both kids and parents

19:49.000 --> 19:53.000
who are not acquainted with video games to start over.

19:53.000 --> 19:58.000
And if we were talking about non-intrusive yellow painting

19:58.000 --> 20:04.000
and sort of environmental tutorial sort of design,

20:04.000 --> 20:08.000
if you go back to the first Super Mario Brothers,

20:09.000 --> 20:15.000
they set this rule in stone that the first few platforms

20:15.000 --> 20:19.000
you see in a Mario game, in a 2D Mario game,

20:19.000 --> 20:22.000
like the first section you see,

20:22.000 --> 20:27.000
explains you what you can do in the whole game.

20:27.000 --> 20:29.000
Like not just in that level.

20:29.000 --> 20:31.000
Or if they introduce a new mechanic,

20:31.000 --> 20:33.000
of course they use that method again.

20:33.000 --> 20:35.000
But if you see the first few platforms,

20:35.000 --> 20:37.000
you sort of realize I can jump,

20:37.000 --> 20:39.000
I can hit the block, I can enter the pipe,

20:39.000 --> 20:42.000
I can jump on top of the enemy, right?

20:42.000 --> 20:45.000
And I think some very simple games

20:45.000 --> 20:49.000
still miss that environmental, not storytelling,

20:49.000 --> 20:52.000
but you know, like mechanic telling.

20:52.000 --> 20:55.000
That they teach you what you can do

20:55.000 --> 20:59.000
just by taking a look at it.

20:59.000 --> 21:01.000
And I think we miss that with very simple games too.

21:01.000 --> 21:04.000
So it's not just the yellow paint

21:04.000 --> 21:07.000
on the 3D more complex games.

21:07.000 --> 21:11.000
So I think that feels off when it happens.

21:11.000 --> 21:13.000
Because we've been taught that way.

21:13.000 --> 21:15.000
Yeah, for sure.

21:15.000 --> 21:17.000
And I think there's definitely an argument

21:17.000 --> 21:18.000
the other side of that as well.

21:18.000 --> 21:20.000
I think there's an argument that some games don't do enough.

21:20.000 --> 21:22.000
Oh, of course.

21:22.000 --> 21:25.000
You know, it's a bit old at this point,

21:25.000 --> 21:28.000
but one of the biggest and most immersive games

21:28.000 --> 21:30.000
that we've seen as of late is Red Dead Redemption 2.

21:30.000 --> 21:33.000
And yeah, like, you know, it's so immersive.

21:33.000 --> 21:34.000
Everyone loves it.

21:34.000 --> 21:36.000
Because you go in, it's like a cowboy simulator.

21:36.000 --> 21:38.000
It's exceptional.

21:38.000 --> 21:40.000
But it doesn't hold your hand.

21:40.000 --> 21:41.000
And I can imagine that for some players,

21:41.000 --> 21:43.000
it's a nightmare to navigate.

21:43.000 --> 21:46.000
So, you know, there's definitely an argument that's...

21:46.000 --> 21:47.000
I think that's the key thing to take from this.

21:47.000 --> 21:50.000
I think we all can agree that accessibility is good.

21:50.000 --> 21:51.000
And we need...

21:51.000 --> 21:53.000
We don't need more accessibility,

21:53.000 --> 21:54.000
but we need it to be constantly prioritized.

21:54.000 --> 21:56.000
And we need people to constantly find new ways

21:56.000 --> 21:59.000
to make games more accessible for those who need it.

21:59.000 --> 22:00.000
But at the same time...

22:01.000 --> 22:02.000
Like, every game that you go into,

22:02.000 --> 22:04.000
you can expect the same options,

22:04.000 --> 22:06.000
rather than, like, someone who, you know,

22:06.000 --> 22:09.000
has a disability being like, can I buy this game?

22:09.000 --> 22:11.000
Or is it going to not have what I need?

22:11.000 --> 22:15.000
Versus, you know, recent Sony exclusives come to mind

22:15.000 --> 22:16.000
just because they've been really on it

22:16.000 --> 22:20.000
with, like, colorblind modes, extra ways to see enemies,

22:20.000 --> 22:24.000
extra, like, time for quick time events, stuff like that.

22:24.000 --> 22:26.000
And you have to wonder, like,

22:26.000 --> 22:28.000
is it not possible for developers to incorporate ways

22:28.000 --> 22:30.000
that you can turn these features off?

22:30.000 --> 22:33.000
Like, you know, surely there's a way that in games

22:33.000 --> 22:34.000
that you can...

22:34.000 --> 22:36.000
Surely there's a slide that they can incorporate

22:36.000 --> 22:38.000
that says turn off yellow paint or something like that.

22:38.000 --> 22:39.000
If you want...

22:39.000 --> 22:41.000
How much spider?

22:41.000 --> 22:44.000
Yeah, how much of a spider shows up on your screen?

22:44.000 --> 22:45.000
How many legs?

22:45.000 --> 22:46.000
Yeah.

22:46.000 --> 22:48.000
Literally, Grounded is not...

22:48.000 --> 22:51.000
I mean, I have friends who can't play Grounded.

22:51.000 --> 22:52.000
Yeah.

22:52.000 --> 22:55.000
Your small spiders are huge.

22:55.000 --> 22:56.000
Wow.

22:56.000 --> 22:57.000
It's terrifying.

22:57.000 --> 22:59.000
They're cartoonish, but wow.

22:59.000 --> 23:00.000
Difficult to stomach.

23:00.000 --> 23:02.000
And in terms of Red Dead Redemption,

23:02.000 --> 23:04.000
I think...

23:04.000 --> 23:05.000
Perhaps it's just me.

23:05.000 --> 23:07.000
I've been into games for my whole life,

23:07.000 --> 23:10.000
and I found the way they mapped buttons

23:10.000 --> 23:12.000
completely non-logical.

23:12.000 --> 23:14.000
Like, it didn't make sense to me.

23:14.000 --> 23:16.000
Like, you have to press this button.

23:16.000 --> 23:17.000
Why to...

23:17.000 --> 23:18.000
I don't know.

23:18.000 --> 23:20.000
I don't remember, like, to pet the horse or something.

23:20.000 --> 23:22.000
Why would you map this here?

23:22.000 --> 23:25.000
And I think there are establishments

23:25.000 --> 23:29.000
and there are, like, sort of ways they don't follow.

23:29.000 --> 23:32.000
Sometimes, for some reason, when you're used to it,

23:32.000 --> 23:34.000
you also need, as you said,

23:34.000 --> 23:37.000
you also need accessibility and controls

23:37.000 --> 23:40.000
to make sense based on what came before, right?

23:40.000 --> 23:43.000
Not just based on your crazy ideas.

23:43.000 --> 23:46.000
And I think, as a final point,

23:46.000 --> 23:49.000
then, can we all agree that controllers...

23:49.000 --> 23:51.000
Can we just have all the controllers,

23:51.000 --> 23:52.000
all the buttons, right?

23:53.000 --> 23:56.000
Can A, X, or whatever Nintendo has,

23:56.000 --> 23:59.000
can we all just agree that that is, like, the jump button?

23:59.000 --> 24:03.000
Because I know people who've gone from PlayStation to Xbox

24:03.000 --> 24:05.000
that have a nightmare adapting to controllers.

24:05.000 --> 24:07.000
And I know people who go to Switch and it's like...

24:07.000 --> 24:08.000
From Nintendo and back.

24:08.000 --> 24:09.000
Yeah, it's so jarring.

24:09.000 --> 24:10.000
That's a problem.

24:10.000 --> 24:12.000
It's so jarring.

24:12.000 --> 24:14.000
But that was a...

24:14.000 --> 24:16.000
How do you say that?

24:16.000 --> 24:19.000
The way it was established by Nintendo,

24:19.000 --> 24:21.000
you know, right button was the main button.

24:21.000 --> 24:22.000
That was A.

24:22.000 --> 24:25.000
But then both Xbox and PlayStation decided

24:25.000 --> 24:28.000
that the button below, like X or...

24:28.000 --> 24:31.000
Was it A on Xbox?

24:31.000 --> 24:33.000
That's going to be confirmed

24:33.000 --> 24:37.000
and cancel is going to be B, right?

24:37.000 --> 24:38.000
Or circle.

24:38.000 --> 24:43.000
So, of course, what you have to do is to offer...

24:43.000 --> 24:45.000
Same as FIFA versus PES back in the day.

24:45.000 --> 24:48.000
You have to offer the alternate or alternative way,

24:48.000 --> 24:50.000
which is like the Nintendo way.

24:50.000 --> 24:53.000
And I'm used to confirming with the right button.

24:53.000 --> 24:56.000
And you guys are probably more used to confirming

24:56.000 --> 24:59.000
with the X or, you know...

24:59.000 --> 25:02.000
I've like subconsciously adjusted

25:02.000 --> 25:04.000
to all the different methods now

25:04.000 --> 25:06.000
and I can go between them seamlessly.

25:06.000 --> 25:07.000
Multitasking.

25:07.000 --> 25:08.000
Yes, exactly.

25:08.000 --> 25:10.000
But I know that some people, it's so challenging

25:10.000 --> 25:13.000
and I can understand where the frustration comes from.

25:13.000 --> 25:15.000
But no, it's an interesting topic

25:15.000 --> 25:17.000
and I think we could talk about accessibility

25:17.000 --> 25:19.000
and the way that it's incorporated for hours, to be honest.

25:19.000 --> 25:20.000
Because it's so...

25:20.000 --> 25:22.000
There's so many different interesting elements to it.

25:22.000 --> 25:24.000
So maybe we'll come back to it at some point

25:24.000 --> 25:25.000
in a future Gaming Gossip episode.

25:25.000 --> 25:26.000
But otherwise, this has been...

25:26.000 --> 25:27.000
Yeah, I think it's either...

25:27.000 --> 25:28.000
I think it's episode 9.

25:28.000 --> 25:29.000
I've lost track because I think we're...

25:29.000 --> 25:30.000
I think so.

25:30.000 --> 25:32.000
Yeah, we're no longer in parity

25:32.000 --> 25:34.000
between Gaming Gossip and Full Frenzy.

25:34.000 --> 25:37.000
So one's episode 8 and one's episode 9.

25:37.000 --> 25:39.000
Either way, this has been Gaming Gossip.

25:39.000 --> 25:40.000
That's been Alex.

25:40.000 --> 25:41.000
That's been Dav.

25:41.000 --> 25:42.000
I've been Ben.

25:42.000 --> 25:43.000
Thank you for watching.

25:43.000 --> 25:44.000
We'll see you on the next one.

25:44.000 --> 25:45.000
Thanks.

25:45.000 --> 25:48.000
GAMING GOSSIP